Curse

Borealis · Jul 22, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

You people here are seriously too anal about the runners, why do YOU really care how someone else plays their game? Get over it.

Calimar · Jul 22, 2005, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Lorelei I think nothing in this thread is half as smart as what you say here:

"I am unsure which side you are on, Gwen (hehe, can't resist), but I actually agree with your post. Nothing wrong with finding places to farm, ways to make money (escort, run, etc.) But just don't cry about it when it got changed. Find more creative ways to make money :P"

As per the flaming... allow people the same freedom of thought that you claim for yourself people. It doesn't hurt, promise. They think differently, but I'm quite sure A.Net is much smarter than an enraged 15 years old boy/girl, and will definitely pick decisions that make sense - just like most if not all that they took lately. Give them credit.

Another point: the fact that people in perch ask for runners doesn't mean a thing. By your logic, I could decide that ashtrays cause cancer, because people staying for long in places with them get lung cancer. But it would be fallacious logic, right? You have to count them and compare to the number of players who never asked for a runner.
I have a thought about the results

Oh, btw, I didn't find a black dye either, but I can buy it for 3-4k.

Dzan · Jul 22, 2005, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Funny, my guild noticed the changes last night when we running our low level characters through. "Man, this got tougher." Once we realized they added more mobs my comment was, "the forums are going to be full of cry babies tomorrow."

Looks like I was right.

Anyway, we still managed to run three characters through with little trouble. All they did was to keep the bottom 20% of unskilled runners from being able to make it, which is good to me. The fewer people that can do it, the more it will be worth for the people who still can.

MSecorsky · Jul 22, 2005, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Funny how the complaints go up when people have to earn something.

/NOT signed

The mobs should be given muddy terrain spirits, imo.

Loviatar · Jul 22, 2005, 03:10 PM // 15:10

the people who cry the loudest that the *new* and *casusl* players will be hurt are the rich farmers who have had their fields trimmed so if they still want to farm they have to spend some time now to do it.

they could care less about someone else......their gold mine just ran out

tragedy

as for the runners getting rich on taxi service .......

only the best runners will survive

evolution in action

/UNSIGNED

GW Monkey · Jul 22, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

I fought my way through the pass. That was fun. Running might be a fun challenge too, now it'll be more so. Yay!

Yay! indeed.

Baited sarcasm notwithstanding, I admit I like a little PvE mob tweakin' now and then. I'm sure most of the FoW crowd got a "hmm that's interesting!" moment when approaching the Eternal Forgemaster and with each pair of Barrage-spamming rangers with such a lethal height advantage already, in that they decided to add a Shadow Beast spamming his SS... you know, for kids!

I'm sorry it's frustrating you, Ownage. I have confidence you'll figure out a way to deal with it, though. You seem really pissed off about it. Anger is an exceptional motivator!

Haloknight9 · Jul 22, 2005, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeno Demachilo

I find droknar runners extremely pathetic. The point of this game is not to run back and forth for money. It is to kill monsters, Level up, Proceed through the game as it was intended, and do that over.

My apologies for the instant "click of the reply and flame" mode i have but....

Who the hell died and made you me? No one.. What the point of the game is to you, isnt nessesarily what it is for me. Other people have fun in different ways... So please stop assuming all people think and play like you. K thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

You know what, every time i see the word "intended" i wonder why the hell there's a link to beacons perch that leads to droknars. What, did you think that a party from camp rankor was interested in unlocking kryta?

Probably one of the best points ive seen...

deathwearer · Jul 22, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linkie

Oh, they're stopping the retards from being able to run to Droknar's? Oh noes.

haha

You can't rush other people to droknar? good, Maybe we won't see any of those guy in Ascalon arena with Droknar armor and elites skills ( i don't play here but for those who do ) that ruin the people fun because of some retard that weren't bright enought to not play here.

Aniewiel · Jul 22, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

only the best runners will survive

evolution in action

/UNSIGNED

LOL! Perfect.

EternalTempest · Jul 22, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

It don't think the goal was to make running harder but make these zones for high level PvE challange (and the runners have hardder time) and I pretty sure the new zones from the free summer content is going to be placed in thses zones and Anet maybe doing nothing more then adding a challenging area for PvE with the free content (and making running hard as a side effect not as a target).

Rayea · Jul 22, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

gees...this reminds me of when the high levels where whineing cause the low level newbs were doing the EXACT thing they themselves had done to get where they were today and were assed off about it, so they whined and griped and flamed till nearly everything in game was classed as an exploit....

i mean c'mon people...!

dont forget that most of you saying running to drok is bad have ALREADY been and gotten there.
your basically saying that you want half the damn map to stay closed to anyone thats not gotten assended, to keep the riffraff and the low levels out of YOUR areas.
wow, that realy nice of you...<sarcasme>

ok, i understand that these bitbrains with their 1.5k armours and elite skills are knackering the lower arens, an yeah, thats bad.
so, make a level or armour restriction for these lower arenas and make it so that they cant EQUIP the damn stuff to play BaddAss King-of-the-Ring

but how would you feel if lots of areas were now off limits, simply cause YOU were lvl20 or had Assended, and we mere mortals had the run of 80% of the world now?

your would scream so much, they would hear you in the underworld lol

Teklord · Jul 22, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Nothing wrong with having a shortcut to get to the Forge, if you are willing to earn that shortcut - thus fight through the tough mobs to get there. If you can earn your way to the Forge all the power to ya.

Running is just plain wrong. Its the cheap @$$ lazy way around a situation. It's wrong, and I don't care about your (pro-runners) reasons why you think its not.

I only care enough to say what I just said.

Vorlin · Jul 22, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Teklord, that makes no sense at all. Noone at the normal level for that area can 'earn' their way through, it's a short-cut that exists for the precise purpose it's being used for: running low-levels through to Droknar's.

And the idea that monsters are being beefed up their for higher levels is silly, there are plenty of high-level places that can be done.

ANet specifically stated that one of their goals was to eliminate grinding in GW. Now this has been waved in their face a lot, often inappropriately, but it seems to me that they put in this shortcut -exactly- because it was in their design plans: to give a shortcut for players who would benefit from it. And by and large, that's what it's being used for. Yes, sometimes newbies spend every penny they have and buy a ride, so what? Then you have a clueless penniless newbie at Drok's Forge who wasted their money getting somewhere they have no way to take advantage of.

I personally can't see me using a runner, I think it's more fun to progress 'naturally'. But I can certainly understand someone using a runner who views PvE as a means only to unlock PvP skills/spells. For them it's a power-up for their 2nd and 3rd characters that lets them get back to PvP as soon as possible.

Like I said before, making the run harder makes no sense. It was already perfectly balanced, IMO (i.e., only a small percentage of the GW population could make the run). Tweaking it so that 'small' becomes 'smaller' just doesn't make any sense, except possible to up the price being asked for a run. But that price is already high enough that it probably won't be paid by anyone who is on their first character, and if they -do- pay it they won't have the money/items necessary to benefit from being at the Forge to begin with.

So it comes down to this: either -eliminate- the shortcut, or leave it as it was, making it harder just doesn't make any sense. It's just irritation with no upside.

corax5 · Jul 22, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

If somethings there, you can use it, it doesnt matter what it was intended for or what people think it should be used for, all that matters is what people can and cant do, as long as its nothing that counts as an exploit etc then fair enough to the people that do it.
I agree that seeing people less than lvl 20 in Droknars is annoying, "I put all the effort in of playing the game so why should they get the reward of being here for nothing", and it seems unfair, but if the paths there, they can take it. And Droknar runners were probably inevitable, if theres a way to make money, people WILL find it, you dont complain in real life when you see a rich person, they worked for that money, mabey got a bit lucky but none the less did something legal for it.
(And with the criminals [or exploiters] they may have money, but they could get arrested, as in Anet banning them.)

Lek Stacy · Jul 22, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

It don't think the goal was to make running harder but make these zones for high level PvE challange (and the runners have hardder time) and I pretty sure the new zones from the free summer content is going to be placed in thses zones and Anet maybe doing nothing more then adding a challenging area for PvE with the free content (and making running hard as a side effect not as a target).

The two new areas are off of Lonar's Pass, just before the zone to Dreadnaught's Drift, you can't miss it. It's on the east side. It's a big greenish gate and wall with a huge statue of Grenth. I don't know why you would want to leave from Beacons Pearch to get to the new areas. Camp Rankor would be quicker and easier, because you can have a party of eight instead of six and the mobs in Snakes Dance are much quicker to go through than Lonars Pass. Of course if you take a wrong turn in Dreadnaughts Drift and end agro'ing the Frost Wurm Boss you could be in trouble!

Anyways the point I'm trying to get to here in my rambling is that if there is an increase in mobs in Lonars Pass it's most likely to be to slow down the running or at least to force people to get a good PUG together and fight your way through. Anyways the pass is there, and it's there for people to use anyway they would like Sometimes A-net is going to change it up a little, which is a nice because it keeps things unpredictable in my opinion.

Darkest Dawn · Jul 22, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I have no problem with the runners, I only have a problem if folks use that armor in the low level arenas. Otherwise, do what you want with the game you spent your money on.

It is clear that the design was on purpose to make a way to the high level areas. I worked and scratched and clawed my way the first time to Droknar's. My other characters, I just want to strengthen them up for PvP/GvG. Therefore, I had them run.

I notice a certain irony here. I used to watch the old WWII movies with John Wayne. After his gun ran out of bullets he would throw it down and grab his knife. Meanwhile there were dozens of other guns lying all around he could have just picked up.

The irony is this: If you were really your character(of course this is fantasy), you would rather have the gun instead of the knife when facing an onslaught of enemies. In fact, you would prefer the gun even if you knew the knife would be fairly adequete. Why? To increase your odds of winning and surviving!

It's the same in the game for many. Many want to get better armor and weapons to increase the odds of winning. I see this as a natural instinct being communicated into this game, reguardless of what the Devs may or may not have intended.

Again, I do think there should be limits for the low level arenas since these folks are new and I don't want them to become disillusioned with the game.

ownage of teh elite · Jul 22, 2005, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Well guys, Im seeing that you guys are just looking at the view, of a runner in droknar. But it's deeper than that. As you can see, economy in guildwars is slowly dropping down. Prices for items, ARE ridiculous. And I can't believe you guys are praising a-net for their nerfing, their removing of chests, and just about every gay thing that happens to the game.

We all have a life, I pretty much presume. I mean, guildwars is for fun. But it's not fun when you have some lucky people who have gotten some +X% >50. Guildwars should implement some money making skills, or ways to gain money. That's my point.

We all are casual players (hopefully). I personally just want to see an improvement in economy. I mean, I really liked the idea of faction, and unlocking items...but it only goes to a certain level of individual gain.

So, Im just saying that I would like a-net to help us out, to help us actually get that 15k armour, in a agreeable way, in a agreeable time limit. Other than searching the whole world, hoping that you will get a max damage, gold storm bow, or some various other drops, they could implement...lets say..fishing?

But...I'm just waiting for major improvements in this game...as It still seems far away from being the big daddy of gameplay.

Vorlin · Jul 22, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

That's one of the challenges of game design: if you don't have item levels then inevitably people find ways of getting high-powered armor/weapons onto their lowbies. If you do have item levels, then you have an arbitrary game-mechanic rearing its ugly head in your make-believe world. After all, who ever went through a museum and saw a level 20 set of armor? GW has a skill level requirements on some gear, but because it has no generic armor skill that's loophole.

*watches as the young Arthur pulls the sword from the stone, only to have it zap him and fall out of his hands because he's not level 20*

It might be interesting if GW implemented a generic armor skill, with more skillpoints invested allowing heavier and heavier armor to be used, giving each character a choice as to when to say "I can't afford to spend any more skillpoints in armor, I need them for my other stuff", but doing it at this point would require some major rebalancing and a skill reset for the entire playerbase, probably not something we'd see unless a -huge- update came out. It might be worth thinking about, though (they probably already have to some degree).

Sair · Jul 22, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calimar

Another point: the fact that people in perch ask for runners doesn't mean a thing. By your logic, I could decide that ashtrays cause cancer, because people staying for long in places with them get lung cancer. But it would be fallacious logic, right? You have to count them and compare to the number of players who never asked for a runner.

It does, however, prove that there is a demand for runners. Its plainly obvious that plenty of people have absolutely no problem with taking the shortcut. And please, don't try to claim they're a minority unless you have hard statistics. Anything else is just worthless speculation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teklord

Running is just plain wrong. Its the cheap @$$ lazy way around a situation. It's wrong, and I don't care about your (pro-runners) reasons why you think its not.

Prove it.

Cap'n Hoek · Jul 22, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Cry me a river.